Liebe luxemburgische Patrioten,
(ich habe sogar extra nicht gegendert, da ihr ja schon genug unter den bösen Gutmenschen, die euer schönes heiles patriarchistisches Weltbild zerstören wollen, leiden müsst !)
Ich bin mir der Tatsache bewusst, dass ihr und ich – ihr habt ja die Tendenz, euch immer künstlich von anderen Menschen abgrenzen zu wollen, also dürfte euch diese Einteilung wohl recht sein – noch nie eine besonders freundliche Beziehung zueinander hatten. Das könnte unter anderem daran liegen, dass ich Patriotismus und Nationalismus als überflüssig, stumpfsinnig, abstrus und gefährlich empfinde und euch gerne öffentlich (insbesondere auf meinem alten Blog) mitsamt eurer polemischen Hasstiraden – die bar jeglicher Logik oder Argumente sin – der Lächerlichkeit preisgegeben habe. Das hat dann auch immer wieder zu sehr liebreizenden Reaktionen eurerseits geführt. (Ich habe mir jedenfalls all eure sorgfältig formulierten Morddrohungen und Obszönitäten, die ihr mir zumeist anonym – ein waschechter, stolzer Luxemburger ist ja immerhin dermaßen von Mut beseelt, dass er nicht seinen richtigen Vor- und Nachnamen zu nennen braucht – zugesendet habt, eingerahmt und als Zeichen meiner Zuneigung über meinem nicht-existenten Kamin aufgehängt).
In den vergangenen Monaten wart ihr beachtenswert ruhig – was darauf schließen lässt, dass sich eure Synapsen wohl gerade erholt haben. Immerhin ist sinnloses Rumhämmern auf der Tastatur, um dieser eure widerlichen, in patriotische Lobeshymnen verpackten rassistischen Ressentiments mit möglichst vielen Ausrufezeichen zu entlocken, eine mentale Meisterleistung, die eben Opfer fordert (unter anderem auch unzählige graue Zellen beim Lesen dieser sprachlichen und argumentativen Meisterleistungen).
Das hat dann für das Abebben unserer reichhaltigen und erbaulichen Diskussionen, bei denen ihr euch so gerne auf die Meinungsfreiheit berufen habt (solange diese nur für euch galt; kritische Stimmen sind in einer Demokratie, deren Werte ihr vertritt, ja schließlich da um geblockt zu werden), gesorgt. Und ich muss sagen: ich habe euch allmählich ganz dolle vermisst – ähnlich diesem Abszess, das immer gerne in regelmäßigen Abständen meinen Mund malträtiert.
In den letzten Tagen aber kam ich bei der schier unermesslichen Fülle an euren vor Intelligenz nur so strotzenden Beiträgen, die meine Facebookwall in Form von stumpfen, nationalistisch geprägten Memes („Keep Calm and Schwätz Letzebuergesch“ – ehrlich? Ich kann gar nicht fassen wie grandios sich dieser Spruch selbst ins Knie schießt), Statussen an der Grenze zur geistigen Umnachtung, linguistisch-historischem Halbwissen über das Luxemburgische, falschen Statistiken zur Anzahl der Luxemburgischsprechenden (es sind 73% der Gesamtbevölkerung, übrigens) und xenophoben und rassistischen Ausfälle wieder einmal zum Schluss, dass aus unserer Relation zueinander wohl keinerlei Blüten der Sympathie mehr hervor sprießen werden. Und ihr habt mit eurem Gehabe unter Beweis gestellt, dass man kein gesundes Verhältnis zum Patriotismus haben kann, weil das Gebilde des Patriotismus an sich schon krank ist.
Warum, um alle erdenklichen Götter willen, beharrt ihr dermaßen auf der luxemburgischen Sprache und verlangt unerbittlich von Ausländern sie zu erlernen, wenn ihr selbst sie nicht einmal richtig schreiben könnt und anscheinend auch nicht einmal dazu imstande seid, Abendkurse im Luxemburgischen zu besuchen? Wenn euch soviel an eurer heiß geliebten Sprache liegt, dass ihr diese sogar als Vorwand benutzt um euren ekelhaften rassistischen Vorbehalten freien Lauf zu lassen, dann ist es umso unfassbar erbärmlicher dass ihr offenbar doch nicht genügend Zeit besitzt, sie richtig lernen zu wollen. Habt ihr als waschechte Luxemburger etwa das angeborene Recht dazu, auf solche Kurse zu verzichten, während die ausländischen Mitbürger sie sehr wohl besuchen sollen? Wie widersprüchlich ist das?
Oh, und welch unermessliches Mitleid mich befällt bei all den tragischen Schicksalen, die ihr auf dieser neu ins Leben gekrochenen und vor braunem Gedankengut starrenden Seite, die definitiv von viel zu vielen Leuten aus meiner Freundesliste geliked wurde (und die sich gar nicht bewusst sind, dass sie von Steve Melmer, einem Rechtsradikalen, der in seiner Freizeit gerne in SS-Uniform posiert und liebend gerne Hitler zitiert, betrieben wird) mit den Menschen teilt – ich weine mich tagtäglich in den Schlaf und verschütte so viele bittere Tränen deswegen, dass sogar der Pazifik vor den angestauten Wassermassen erbleicht! Kaum zu fassen, welch schier unerträgliches Leid sich in all den luxemburgischen Bäckereien – offenbar der beliebteste und einzige Aufenthaltsort der Luxemburger, da die Mehrheit der auf der Seite geschilderten Ereignisse sich bizarrerweise dort zugetragen hat – tagtäglich abspielt, wenn den böswilligen Verkäufern nicht das gewünschte liebreizende „MOIEN“ über die Lippen dringt, sondern ein in den Ohren der Patrioten geradezu wie ein in der Hölle geschmiedetes Lied erklingendes „EN FRANÇAIS S.V.P.“.
Was in aller Welt trägt die Schilderung solcher lächerlichen Banalitäten – mit darauf folgenden hypokritischen, haarsträubend xenophoben und rassistischen Aussagen, die auffällig oft mit „Ich bin kein Rassist, aber…“ beginnen – auch nur in irgendeiner Form zu einer Lösung der Probleme, die durch die unbestritten komplexe Sprachsituation in Luxemburg entstehen, bei? Was bitte tragen eure stumpfsinnigen patriotische Bekundungen, dass ihr stolz auf den Fleck Erde seid, auf dem ihr das unverschämte Glück hattet geboren zu werden, überhaupt Konstruktives bei?
Genau: nichts. Rein gar nichts. Ihr tragt nichts zu der Diskussion bei; ihr beruft euch nur auf ein eingebildetes Gefühl für den empirisch nicht einmal erfahrbaren Begriff der Nation; glaubt, ihr könntet damit etwas bewegen und steigert euch immer mehr in eure kruden Verschwörungstheorien, die auf falschen Statistiken und Halbwissen basieren und eure Paranoia, man wolle die ach so armen Luxemburger „ausrotten“, hinein. Dabei beruht eure Auffassung, Luxemburgisch würde aussterben, auf eurem subjektiv verzerrten Bild der Realität – dem ihr aber das Recht verleiht, als so allgemeingültig zu gelten, dass ihr andere Menschen dafür aufgrund ihrer Herkunft beleidigen und ausgrenzen dürft.
Ach du meine Güte! Mir fällt jetzt erst mein harscher Tonfall auf. Entschuldigt mich bitte vielmals dafür, meine verehrten Patrioten: ich wollte euch nur auf diplomatische und einfühlsame Art und Weise verdeutlichen, dass ihr Witzfiguren seid.
Da ihr aber vor allem Mitleid wollt, weil ihr immer wieder beim morgendlichen Brötchenkauf die Hölle durchlebt, versuche ich jetzt trotzdem mal, anders an die Sache heranzugehen. Ihr habt nämlich vor allem eines: ein Identitätsproblem. Und eure Auffassung von Identität korreliert mit der Auffassung, dass eine Nation nur einem „Volk“ gehöre und nur eine einzige Sprache spreche. Ganz davon abgesehen, dass das Konzept von Nationen überholt ist – so sieht die Welt heutzutage nicht mehr aus, und so hat sie auch nie ausgesehen. Und besonders im Falle von Luxemburg, das sich über seine Mehrsprachigkeit definiert, ist es schon seit der Staatsgründung so, dass Französisch, Deutsch und Luxemburgisch alle drei die Nationalsprachen Luxemburgs sind.
Somit muss ich euch, meinen liebenswürdigen Patrioten, leider mitteilen, dass ihr unter einer gravierenden kognitiven Dissonanz leidet: wenn man denn den Staat und die Nation Luxemburg als solche anerkennt – was ich nicht tue, aber das ist jetzt nicht von Belange – und sich auf dessen Einzigartigkeit beruft, so schließt man somit auch gleich die Mehrsprachigkeit mit ein. Dass ihr – also die selbsternannten Patrioten und Nationalisten – genau diese aufheben möchten, ist dann geradezu belustigend – denn so negiert ihr bewusst eines der wenigen Dinge, das euer verehrtes Luxemburg überhaupt auszeichnet. Verzwickt, nicht wahr?
Um noch mal zum Problem der Identität in Kombination mit daraus umso stärker auftretendem Nationalstolz zurückzukommen – Arthur Schopenhauer, einer meiner Lieblingsphilosophen, hat den Grund dafür sehr treffend formuliert:
“Die wohlfeilste Art des Stolzes hingegen ist der Nationalstolz. Denn er verrät in dem damit Behafteten den Mangel an individuellen Eigenschaften, auf die er stolz sein könnte, indem er sonst nicht zu dem greifen würde, was er mit so vielen Millionen teilt. Wer bedeutende persönliche Vorzüge besitzt, wird vielmehr die Fehler seiner eigenen Nation, da er sie beständig vor Augen hat, am deutlichsten erkennen. Aber jeder erbärmliche Tropf, der nichts in der Welt hat, darauf er stolz sein könnte, ergreift das letzte Mittel, auf die Nation, der er gerade angehört, stolz zu sein. Hieran erholt er sich und ist nun dankbarlich bereit, alle Fehler und Torheiten, die ihr eigen sind, mit Händen und Füßen zu verteidigen.” – Parerga und Paralipomena, Aphorismen zur Lebensweisheit, Von dem was einer vorstellt. pp. 360
Und – Überraschung! -, seine Identität kann man auch definieren, ohne patriotischen und nationalistischen Schwachsinn von sich zu geben oder etwas für eine Nation zu „empfinden“ und daraufhin so emotional befangen zu sein, dass man ständig weinen oder in Zorn ausbrechen oder beides gleichzeitig tun muss weil die arme luxemburgische Sprache anscheinend auf dem Sterbebette liegt weil sie von den diabolischen Ausländern so arg verprügelt wurde. Anstelle euch also ständig auf euren plumpen Stolz zu verschränken: tut etwas Sinnvolles und Konstruktives, auf das ihr auch wirklich stolz sein könnt – beispielsweise, in dem ihr versucht, eine konkrete (bildungs)-politische Lösung für die durch die Sprachsituation in Luxemburg auftretenden Probleme zu finden.
Und die besteht sicherlich nicht draus, dass ihr eure Croissants bei Fischer auf einmal auf Luxemburgisch bestellen könnt oder ihr alle ausländischen Mitbürger (wie mich diese willkürliche Einteilung in Ausländer und Einheimische schon per se aufregt, aber des Verständnis und der Veranschaulichung wegen greife ich darauf zurück) des Landes verweist, damit die Wirtschaft schön zusammenbricht. Ich dachte da schon viel eher beispielsweise an ein breiteres Angebot an Luxemburgischkursen oder eine einheitliche Alphabetisierung einerseits in Luxemburgisch, aber auch auf Deutsch und Französisch in der Schule – aber das wäre euch dann ja wieder zu anstrengend, nicht wahr?
Mit freundlichen Grüßen,
Maxime Weber
P.S.: Im Anhang habe ich euch noch ein paar schöne Screenshots von Aussagen des Betreiber der bereits eingangs erwähnten Seite “Fir all dei et satt hun gesot ze kreien “scheiss letzeboier” :O”, die in den letzten Tagen für soviel Aktivität eurerseits gesorgt hat, mitgeschickt. Enjoy 🙂
ech sin jo schon d’accord mat dir…mée probéier bessen manner emotional ze schreiwen dann kennt den message besser riwer. Den Typ vun den screenshots ass einfach nemmen lächerlech, waat soll een zu souvill Quatsch soen…
Schéin och mol erëm eppes op Facebook gedeelt ze gesinn wou Iwwerleeungen derhannert sinn, a wat een Kontrast zu deenen, wei et schéngt leider ëmmer méi heefegen an dommen, nationalisteschen Kommentaren bild. Super Beitrag, ganz denger Meenung, wäert lo mol méi oft hei op däi Blog laanscht kucken kommen. 🙂
Wow, du holst da ziemlich aus!
Ich kann natürlich in Sachen Luxemburg nicht wirklich mitsprechen, in Sachen Patriotismus dafür umso mehr. Ich denke, dass du ausser Acht lässt, dass man den wahren Hintergrund und Sinn eines Patriotismus (nämlich so gut wie gar keinen (mit einer Ausnahme, die ich gleich bringen werde)) erst hinterfragen kann, wenn die gute Bildung da ist. Es gibt sehr viele, die das gar nicht erst hinterfragen wollen oder können, was dieser Einsicht etwas den Wind aus den Segeln nimmt.
So wie du den luxemburgischen Patriotismus beschreibst, scheint er sehr Sprachfixiert zu sein. Das macht mMn die ganze Sache noch einen Ticken schwieriger, aber wie soll man gegen eine Schafherde aufkommen?
Da dies das einzige Beispiel ist, wovon ich Ahnung habe, bringe ich mal den schweizer Patriotismus. Er wird heutzutage zwar als politisches Mittel missbraucht, hat aber tatsächlich einen historischen HIntergrund. Noch bevor die Schweiz gegründet wurde (vor 1848) war es kaum möglich, all diese kleinen Kantone zu einen, da alle sich einander hassten und somit auch keinen Grund sahen, sich mit den “Anderen” einzulassen. Denn damals war die Schweiz auf einem Niveau eines heutigen Entwicklungslandes, es hatte kein Meeranschluss, es bestand aus armen Bauern die praktisch unbewirtschaftbares Land bewirtschaften mussten und Kleinkriege mit den Nachbarkantonen waren keine Seltenheit. Ausserdem ist und war die Schweiz viersprachig, was das Vertrauen ineinander nicht unbedingt stärkte. Als im Wiener Kongress der Schweiz die Einung aufgezwungen wurde, sah man nur eine Möglichkeit das Volk davon zu überzeugen dass sie ein Teil eines Ganzen sind: Man stampfte einen Patriotismus aus dem Boden mithilfe von Heidi, Wilhelm Tell, Winkelried, ect. Dieser funktionierte und hielt bis heute an. Das ist auch der Grund, weshalb bei uns Welsche, Tessiner, Bündner und Deutschschweizer so gut verstehen: Alle haben verstanden dass sie zur selben Nation gehören.
Darum stimme ich nicht mit allem überein was du gesagt hast, Maxime. Patriotismus ist nicht immer nur stumpf und hirnlos. Ich denke dass ein Staat ohne einen gewissen Patriotismus nicht funktionieren kann. Wer sich nicht als Teil eines Landes fühlt, wird sich sicherlich auch nicht um dessen Wohl bemühen. Ohne dieses Zusammenraufen wäre die Schweiz nicht da wo sie heute ist; sie hat es geschafft sich innerhalb von 150 Jahren von einem Dreckloch zu einem führenden Wirtschaftsstaat zu entwickeln.
Bin ich denn Patriotisch? Das kann ich nicht so recht beurteilen. Ich fühle mich schon rein sprachlich her in der Schweiz wohler als zB in Deutschland. Auch wenn hierzulande Räterromanisch die einzige heimische Sprache ist, die gefördert wird (weil sie auch wirklich am absterben ist), fühle ich mich doch mehr mit den Mitschweizern verbunden als mit anderen Deutschsprachigen. Klar ist es so, dass Zürcher oder Wallisser oder Basler für ihren Dialekt belächelt werden, aber es ist selten so, dass man effektiv gegen sie Kampagnen oder Facebookpages eröffnet. Im Gegenteil: Wallisser eröffnen eine Facebookpage, in der sie ihren eigenen Dialekt anpreisen und nicht-Walisser liken es, weil sie es einfach feiern (Bsp. https://www.facebook.com/WalliserMemes?fref=ts ). Ich ertappe mich gerade bei patriotischem Gesäusel, verdammt! 😀
Mich würde interessieren, wie genau sich der luxemburgsche Patriotismus äussert bzw worauf er basiert. Wirklich nur Sprache? Oder ist da etwas dahinter?
hi Schildkröte ,
Finde deinen Beitrag klasse ! Und was den Patriotismus angeht , ist das ganze Gefassel Quatsch mit Sosse !
Es gibt Ausnahmen die vielleicht bisschen Rechtsradikal wirken , aber das hält sich meiner Meinung nach in Grenzen !
Es geht viel mehr Sozialismus , Toleranz und Respekt ! Nicht jeder soll auf einmal Luxemburgisch können es geht viel mehr darum dass wirklich nur ein kleiner Teil es überhaupt versucht und ein noch kleiner Teil es schafft !
Wenn du 10 , ich sag jetzt mal Emmigraten um nicht vielleicht Rassistich rüber zu kommen , fragst warum sie kein Luxemburgisch lernen , ist die Antwort : Das braucht man doch nicht spricht eh jeder … ! (selber ausfüllen)
Und das ist jetzt noch die nette Version von was ich alles schon grhört habe ^^
Moien a Respekt fir aeren wonnerbaren Text…do bleiwt naischt derbaizefuegen.
Merci
Léiwe Maxime,
Ech si frou endlech mol en Artikel ze liesen iwwert dës Thematik, de gutt informéiert a gutt geschriwwen ass. Nodeems ech mer e puer vun Denge méi ale Blog entries ugekuckt hunn wollt ech Dier MERCI soen. Merci, fir déi Aarbescht déis Du der mëss, a merci dass Du se mat eis (a vill méi wichteg, mat deene Leit déi et musse gesoot kréien) deels.
Maach weider sou,
Catherine
Moien Maxime Weber,
Mäin Numm as Lizzy, ech studéiren Sozial Arbescht mat Schwéierpunkt Bildung an Integratioun . Gläich as et souwäit dass ech meng MA-Arbescht schreiwen an wollt des genau desem Thema widmen: Letzeboier Sproch – Rassismus – Integratiounspolitik – Handlungsperspektiven fir d’Sozial Arbescht am Land.
No ärem ganz interessanten Bäitrag wollt ech mol nofroen ob dir och beruflech an deem Kader aktiv sidd, respektiv ob dir mir vläit deen een oder aner Tipp / Enerstetzung kinnt gin.
Ech soen ierch alt am viräus villmols merci.
Lizzy
Hei en humoristesche Pastiche iwwert d’Interkulturellitéit zu Lëtzebuerg
http://katriiins.wordpress.com/2013/06/26/how-to-date-an-italian-boy-luxo-black-boy-or-yugs/#more-7
Also ob där enger Säit hues’du natierlech Recht,auslännerfeindlech ze sin as extrem domm. Virun allem an engem klengen Land… Awer an bal veier Johrzengten matzekreien wei een mat senger eegener Sprooch emmer manner wäit kennt as nu wierklech kee scheint Gefill an wann do Leit sech verbal Loft maan as dat ze verstoen,och wann vill iwerdriwen get. An als gudden Noper misst grad du dach wessen dat esou hallefstark Sprech leider net ze vermeiden sin,dat beschtent Beispill hues’du jo am eegenen Land. Oder sin all dei türkenfeindlech (zum Beispiel) Parolen eriwer dei Säit vun der Musel? Ech mengen net… Also reeg dech net zevill iwer dei kleng Letzebuerger ob,dei wärten genausou weineg Napalm geint Auslänner benotzen wei bei eech zur Adventszäit Türken brennen… Ps:deng Schreifform fannen ech awer gud,du muss just nach bessen um Inhalt schaffen. Ciao an haal d’Oueren steif…
Ou Maxime, ech sin stolz op Dech!
Geil hues Du dat gemach, et war een richtegen zerfridden stellenden Genoss deng Argumentatioun duech ze liesen. 😀
Ech hun mech freckt gelacht…ech haat fun där Seit heieren, wousst awer net dass esou eng onwichteg an kleng Niewensaach esou vill Leit ungezunn huet.
An ech soen dir vill mols merci dass Du deenen Leit mol eng Keier den Kapp geresellt hues.
gudd gemach 😉
Zuerst : Ich bewundere deine deutschen Sprachkentnisse und himmle deine Ironie und deine Zynik an , die sich in deinen Zeilen versteckt. Ich erhoffe mir dass meine Antwort respektiert wird , auch wenn diese sich nicht auf dem gleichen sprachlichen Level befindet.
Zweitens: Klar gibt es Patrioten zulande die einem das Bedürfnis geben, sich einen stumpfen Gegenstand quer durch den Schädel zu jagen, jedoch glaube ich den Grund zu kennen , wieso jenen Menschen der Satz “EN FRANÇAIS S.V.P” so zusetzt. Meiner bescheidenen Meinung beginnt der gemeine Luxemburger im Kindesalter die französiche Sprache zu verabscheuen, da ihm bei seiner ersten Konfrontation mit der französichen Sprache, Angst und Unwohlsein wiederfährt, da es ihm unmöglich ist, diese Sprache zu verstehen. Später assoziert er diese Gefühle mit der französichen Sprache. Dies ist meiner Meinung auch der Grund, wieso von den Patrioten meist nur die französiche Sprache, als Sündenbock für alles Böse dargestellt wird, weil fast jeder Luxemburger mit deutschen Filmen aufwächst und so diese Sprache bereits im Kindesalter versteht. Was einem leicht fällt ist auch kein Problem.
Auch wenn ich mich hier nicht als Patriot darstelle, muss ich zugeben, dass ich, wenn einer der seltenen Fälle eintrifft und mein Verkäufer die luxemburgische Sprache beherrscht, ich fast vor Freude tanze. Mein Problem ist die negative Einstellung jener die sich erlauben, sich über einen lustig zu machen, dessen Französich im altäglichen Bereich an seine Grenzen stößt. Ich glaube, dass es für viele Pendler schwer ist, unsere Sprache zu lernen und verüble es keinem, dass er sie nicht beherrscht, jedoch sollte jeder genug Respekt haben, niemanden auszulachen, dessen Französich nicht reicht um sich auszudrücken, so wie niemand das Recht hat , sich über einen lustig zu machen , der versucht Luxemburgisch zu sprechen und damit Probleme hat. Aber wer kennt das Gefühl nicht, wenn man im Laden steht und Angst hat den Verkäufer anzusprechen, weil einem der Name des Gegenstandes, den man vergeblich sucht, auf Französich nicht einfällt? Erst vor kurzem wollte ich im Laden meines Vertrauens eine Fliegenklappe kaufen, und wurde von dem Verkäufer ausgelacht, weil mir keine Übersetzung einfiel und ich mit Füßen und Händen versucht habe mich auszudrücken. In solchen Situatonen ist es verständlich, dass einem leicht der Kragen platzen kann, da man sich die Mühe gibt, in der verhassten Sprache zu reden und als Dank ausgelacht wird.
Ich versuche nicht, die Rechtsradikalen zu decken aber ich hoffe, dass ich mit meiner Antwort aufklären kann und somit verständlich machen kann, wieso es “verständlich” ist, dass viele Luxemburger so auf Ausländer reagieren wie sie es nun eben tun.
Da Ich mich für meine Grammatik und meine Sprache schäme, da sie der deiniger nicht das Wasser reichen kann, bevorzuge ich es anonym zu bleiben und hoffe auf Verständnis.
Franchement, bravo. Immens gudden, intelligenten Artikel! Ech bewonneren deng Fähegkeet nuancéiert ze denken, an méi wait ze kucken wéi verschidden anerer. Dai sarkasteschen Schreiwstyle verleiht deem ganzen nach eng méi grouss Aussoostärkt, Fond an Forme artikuléieren sech op wonnerbar Art a Weis an brengen een dozou och effektiv nozedenken.
Den Numm an d’Profilbild hätten verdeckt sollen gin, dat doen grenzt un Rufmord an Hetzried and béides ass gesetzleg verbueden.
Ob aner Fehler déi un Vergewaltegung un der Deitscher Sprooch grenzen well ech elo mol net hinweisen.
Ansonten ass et deng Meenung déis de roueg kanns deelen.
Ich bin deutscher und muss dir sagen, du hast doch mal richtig einen an der Klatsche!
Was würdest du denn sagen, wenn du hier in D zu Fielmann gehst, die angestellte freundlich auf deutsch nach ner Info zu ner Brille fragst und die Mitarbeiterin aber nur französisch spricht… Genau das ist in Lux nämlich keine Seltenheit…
In Deutschland wird auch nicht schon ab der 2. oder spätestens 3. Klasse Französisch gelehrt.
In Luxemburg sollte sogar ein 12-jähriger Schüler in der Lage dazu sein, sich anständig auf Französisch zu verständigen, also sollte es kein Skandal sein wenn man beim Optiker mal 4 Sätze auf Französisch sagen muss. Warum wird diese Sprache denn sonst so früh gelehrt?
Richtig ist: In Luxemburg müssen die Kinder ab der 2. Klasse Französisch lernen und ab der 3. geht dann so richtig die Post ab: Grammatik pauken bis der Schädel raucht. 6 Unterrichtsstunden pro Woche, oft mehr, da viele Lehrer es sich erlauben, Französisch auf Kosten des Deutschen weiter “auszubauen”. In der 6. Klasse kommen dann die landesweit standardisierten Prüfungen zwecks weiterer schulischer Orientierung. Diese sind mittlerweile auf einem so kümmerlichen Niveau (Kenntnisse in Grammatik und Orthographie, obwohl gerade diese jahrelang gepaukt wurden, werden kaum geprüft!), dass jeder halbwegs geistig intakte Schüler fähig ist, ein annehmbares Resultat abzuliefern (die Lehrer müssen inhaltlich richtige Antworten auch dann akzeptieren wenn sie vor Fehlern nur so strotzen). Auf der siebten Klasse zeigt sich dann, was Sache ist: grottenschlechte Noten und Frust pur bei Eltern, Schülern und wohl auch Lehrern, weil nur sehr wenige Septimaner mithalten können. Also: kaum ein 12 bis 14-Jähriger Luxemburger wird mit der erwähnten Verkäuferin Französisch parlieren (können) und das Problem haben wahrscheinlich nicht nur Schüler. Ist es wirklich rassistisch, wenn man ein Problem damit hat, dass man in einem kleinen Land so von einer Sprache zur anderen hüpfen muss und, was schlimmer ist, vom Bildungssystem irgendwann aussortiert wird, wenn man entweder keine Lust auf Französisch hat oder die Fähigkeit es zu erlernen nicht besteht? Wieso lernen Lothringer nicht Deutsch oder Englisch? Das Erlernen von Fremdsprachen würde sicher auch ihnen zum Vorteil gereichen und, außerdem, wäre es nicht an der Zeit, für alle EU-Staaten Englisch verbindlich als erste zu erlernende Fremdsprache festzuzlegen? In einer Generation wäre dann das ganze Problem europaweit vom Tisch.
Richtig, das ist auch keine Seltenheit, darum gehts ja hier,aber was hat das jetzt mit Deutschland zu tun?
Ich wohne jetzt einige Monate in Deutschland zum studieren und hier ist mir das noch nicht einmal vorgekommen, deshalb verstehe ich nicht richtig warum du das erwähnst?
An Raoul: Ich weiss nicht wie es jetzt ist aber bei mir und meinen Mitschülern war es so dass wir Französisch relativ einfach fanden und auch normale Ergebnisse hatten. Für viele war es die erste richtige ”Fremdsprache” die wir gelernt haben, da man ja Deutsch schon sehr früh allein durch Fernsehen kann. Da hat es dann einfach Spass gemacht es zu lernen, weil es auch viel Alltagsbezogener war: man konnte noch wirklich was damit anfangen.
Diese Probleme welche du aufzählst haben für mich, aber auch für viele andere meine Freunde dann im Lycée angefangen, weil da auf einmal fast nur noch unbrauchbare Verbformen gepaukt wurden, welche man dann am Ende meistens doch nicht konnte und man zudem vieles was man vorher in der Grundschule gelernt hat wieder vergessen hat.
Ech befaasse mëch kuerz…ech fannen daat super! D’Iwwerleeungen sin mat Argumenter ënnermauert an méi wéi plausibel. All Form vun Demagogie sin hei (aanescht wei bei villen Siten an Forumsformen) net ze fannen. Weider esou…nëmmen esou kann eist Land weidergoën.
Hallo,
Ich finde Patriotismus zeichnet sich darin aus dass man das Land liebt ohne gleich ein Rassist zu sein.
Wenn man das Land liebt, liebt man alles was dazu gehört inklusive Einwohner, Ausländer oder nicht ist ganz egal hauptsache Einwohner.
Ich selbst als Patriot respektiere jeden einwohner egal welcher Nationalität und freue mich über jeden Fortschrit den ich sehe wenn jemand sich die Mühe macht Luxemburgisch zu reden und zu lernen. Man soll nicht auf die Fehler der Menschen schauen sondern sie für die Fortschritte loben die sie geleistet haben. So finde ich sollte man ZUSAMMEN versuchen die luxemburgische Sprache zu stärken und nicht in dem man die Ausländer ausgrentzt.
Denn das ist ein Patriot, jemand der sein Land liebt wie es ist.
Mit freundlichen Grüßen,
Thierry POHU
Keen Kommentar weider,………Maxime Weber……..Du dees mir just leed,………..Keen Niveau……….keen Respekt………….daat seet ALLES…………..:(……………..keng Selbstleiwt!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
Wann ech esou eppez liesen, kann ech nemmen den Kapp reselen.
Wanns de domat den Kommentar iwet dir mengs kann ech der nemmen zoustemmen.
Just een Wuert: Excellent!
Merci Maxime, do kann ech dir gréisstendeels nëmmen zoustëmmen!
Sehr geehrter Herr Weber.
Ich bin da nicht ganz ihrer Meinung.
Ich bin selber Ausländer und wohl gut integriert.
Ich spreche, schreibe, arbeite und Lebe das Luxemburger leben erst seid 11 Jahren.
Spreche selber 4 sprachen und 2 weitere habe ich mir angelernt.
Zuvor lebte ich in Deutschland, besuchte dort die schule und machte dort meine Ausbildung.
Und wohlgemerkt habe ich mir auch diese Sprache angeeignet. Warum? Ich hatte keine andere Wahl.
Es ist doch nicht so schwer schon alleine aus Respekt gegenüber dem Land wo du lebst sich einigermaßen zu integrieren.
Warum immer diese Vorurteile?
Wir sind doch alle nur Menschen.
Manchmal wenn ich einkaufen gehe fällt es mir immer schwer sich fachmännisch auf Französisch auszudrücken, ich probiers so gut wie ich kann. Aber leider gibt es sich die andere seite keine mühe um mir etwas entgegen zu kommen. Traurig muss ich sagen.
Deswegen bevorzuge ich die Läden wo Luxembugisch gesprochen wird denn da werde ich auch anders behandelt.
Nur zur Erinnerung ich bin ein Ausländer.
Eigentlich wollte ich sie auf ihr Kontext ansprechen, sie vergassen zur erwähnen das die Luxemburger Sprache auch als Sprache Dezember 2003 anerkannt worden ist. Die Amtssprache wie gewohnt Französisch.
Diese Information wissen leider nicht viele aber ich als integrierter Ausländer interessiere mich für das Land wo ich lebe und weiß das eben.
Das sollte auch zum Luxemburger allgemein wissen gehören.
Das ist meine Geschichte und meine Sicht der Dinge, ich wäre froh wenn mehrere Menschen diese teilen würden.
Danke Mina
Lieber Maxime,
Ich teile deine meinung nur zum teil,
Meinst du mit “ihr” alle Luxemburger,
warscheinlich diese jeniege die andauernd
anonym hinterm pc irgendwelche minderheiten an
den pranger stellen nur,
gerhoere ich auch dazu
zu den Luxemburgern und wir sind vom aussterben bedroht,
Fortpflanzen tun wir uns noch
manchmal auch untereinander
Irgendwie werden wir nicht damit fertig
Das wir so ein kleines Land sind
mit grossen Geldproblemen
unsere vorfahren sind fluechtige Juden und Nazis
desshalb pisseb wir jeden an
Eigentlich solche wie du
Solche Leute die es auf die dummen unter uns
abgesehen halten,
eigentlich sind wir Luksemburger
Menschen.
Lass dein frust doch bitte nechstes mal an einer
Anderen minderheit aus.
Egal was du erlebt gesehen und gelesen hast
Focussieren ist flott nee solange mann sich dabei
Und seine fehler nicht erwehnt
Der Mensch eben.
Mal probiert mit motivieren anstatt zu critisieren ?
Claude Gaspar
Herkunft: Koenigreich Nassau
Kanns du das bitte noch einmal etwas anders Formuliert schreiben, Ich und warscheinlich alle anderen können sich keinen Reim aus deinem Kommentar machen.
Im Moment gibt es 2 Möglichkeiten: Entweder du hast einen sehr speziellen Humor oder das ganze ist einfach Sinnfrei und Dumm.
Sehr geehrte/er Frau/Herr Hofmann , finde ihren Beitrag interassant und aufschlussreich ! Sie sprechen da einige prezise Punkte an die diese Seite zu einer Lachnummer machen könnten !
Da wir Beide Ausländer sozusagen sind , (bin übrigens Portugiese) fühle ich mich verpflichtet ihnen vielleicht eine andere Sicht der Situation nahe zulegen , die ich viel gravierender und respektloser finde als sie es in ihrem Beitrag beschreiben !
Zur Luxemburger Sprache stimmt es höchstwahrscheinlich das Sie vielleicht noch zu 73% gesprochen wird , aber diese Zahl fällt morgens gegen 6Uhr früh wohl eher auf 30% , da ich es jeden Tag mit eigenen Ohren hören kann !
Es geht im ersten Sinne wohl um Akzeptanz ! Viele akzeptieren die Tatsache nicht das über Grenzen auch Leute mit Qualification gibt und ja der Luxemburger ist grundsätzlich verwöhnt ! Aber sind immernoch Luxemburger , und das gibt ihnen , meiner Meinung nach ein gewisses Recht auf “verurteilung” !
So jetzt zu dem was mir als Ausländer so am Herzen liegt und was ich mir von solchen Seiten erwarte und warum ich sie unterstütze ! Wie sie wohl an meiner E-mail sehen komme ich aus dem südlichen Teil Luxenburgs und kann ihnen versichern das es im moment nur etwas gibt wad mich da hält ! Meine Familie ! Sonst nix !
Ich finde es Respektlos und Ekelhaft , wenn ich höre und erlebe wie sich mansche Ausländer benehmen und verhalten , ich habe hier in Esch soviel unhöflichkeit gesehen wie ich mich in meiner ganzen Kindheit und als Erwachsenen nicht erinnern kann ! Beispiele zu nennen hat keinen Zweck da dieser Post morgen noch nicht fertig wäre !
Ich finde es wichtig , dass die Leute die Sprache verstehen ! Mir ist es egal op man sie spricht , ich beherrsche fünf Sprachen aber ein gewisses Verständnis muss da sein ! Denn sie verdienen ihre croissants nicht im eigenen Lande , sondern hier und der mindeste versuch wäre der Versuch ! Aber zu behaupten dass übertriebene Toleranz der richtige Weg und das man alles ohne Grenzen sehen sollte , und das entnehme ich ihrem Beitrag , ist absoluter Schwachsinn ! Ich weiss nicht wie sie sich fühlen würden wenn ihr schönes Land , und das mein ich auch so , ich liebe Deutschland ^^ , 50 mal kleiner wäre und jeden Tag Leute einströmen würden die nur Polnisch , Dänisch , Französich sprechen würden !
Es ist ein Geben und Nehmen und Fakt ist das Luxemburg mehr gibt als kriegt , und das finde ich sehr traurig ! Wenn man jetzt jeden einen Rassist nennt der ein gewisse Überzeugung ( abgesehen von dem Leiter der Seite und seiner Vergangenheit ) dann muss ich wohl selbst einer sein mit all deenen die auch ins Land kamen und sich mühe gegeben habe sich einbisschen anzupassen !
Es schwierig ein Mittelmaß zu finden denn jeder kann nur seine Ansicht vertretten , und dass so viele Leute unteranderem auch Freunde von ihnen so eine Seite Liken zeigt nur dass ein Korn Wahrheit drin steckt !Die haben auch wahrscheinlich recht aber der Mensch ist ein dummes Wesen , und vollkommene Toleranz wird es nicht geben , Nie !
P.S. Es würde mich interessieren wie ihre Sicht wäre wenn die Seite zb von mier erstellt worden wäre !?
LG Fonseca Remy
nach een PS nicht hoffmann sondern Weber , hatte mich verlesen ^^
Ich wollte schon auf luxemburgisch antworten aber ich passe mich dann mal hier an (Es ist doch immer wieder schön so sprachgewandt zu sein) : Ich will hier vor allem auf deine letzte Frage eingehen, denn ich bilde mir ein Sie teilweise beantworten zu können. Denn Sie bringt einer der wichtigsten Punkte zum vorschein, der Teilweise viel zu kurz kommt, nämlich eben gerade der Ursprung der Seite. Natürlich ist ein bisschen wahrheit mit drin, sonst würden die Leute nicht auf den Like Button drücken. Als erstes eine These zum weshalb: Es ist wohl eher eine zustimmung zu der Tatsache dass die im Titel der Gruppe beschriebene Situation recht häufig vorkommt, die Leute sich damit identifizieren können und halt einfach aus Spass liken.Ich glaube kaum dass viele davon überhaupt auf der Seite selbst nachgeschaut haben was da veröffentlicht wird. Wie aggressiv muss man sonst durch den Tag laufen wenn man allein durch diese Situation so aufgebracht wird?
Das Problem ist also dass viele sich nicht bewusst waren wem sie da sozusagen zugestimmt haben. Wenn ich die paar Beiträge von dem Admin da oben lese habe ich jedenfalls schon keine Lust mehr dieser Seite auch nur noch einen Blickes zu würdigen.
Meine Zeit wird knapp deshalb kurz gesagt: Ich glaube es geht auch einfch darum dass die Leute sich mal Informieren zu welcher Gruppe Sie da dazugehören, das ganze Getue um die Sprache ausnahmsweise beiseite.
Um deine Frage also zu beantworten, Ich denke wenn du diese Seite gegründet hättest wäre dieser Beitrag ziemlich sicher nicht entstanden.
En Francais svp.
Ich werde mir hiemit erlauben meinen Kommentar recht kurz zu halten. Zugegebenermassen liest sich Ihr Text auf den ersten Blich recht ordentlich, und könnte sogar teilweise relativ schlüssig sein. Bei genauerer Betrachtung allerdings fällt auf, dass es Ihnen an profundem grammatischem Wissen fehlt (Satzzeichen, Satzbau, Pronomen …….). Es kann natürlich durchaus sein, dass es sich hier um Flüchtigkeitsfehler handelt, was dann allerdings auf Respektlosigkeit hindeuten würde, da Sie ja gerade den Luxemburgern genau diesen Mangel vorwerfen. Im Uebrigen halte ich die Forderung meiner Mitbürger weder für rassistisch noch nationalistisch. Vielmehr glaube ich, dass es sich hierbei um die Forderung nach Respekt handelt. Und ich gebe zu, dass auch ich der Meinung bin, dass Menschen, die in ein anderes Land gehen, um dort ihr Geld zu verdienen, diesem Land und seiner Bevölkerung zumindest den Respekt zollen die Landessprache zu erlernen. Und sollte man sich sogar mit dem Gedanken tragen seinen festen Wohnsitz in dieses Land zu verlegen, ist es umso wichtiger! Auch in Deutschland ist eine der Grundvoraussetzungen Arbeit zu finden, das mehr oder weniger Beherrschen der Landessprache. Was mich auf noch einen Punkt in Ihrem doch sehr spitzen Brief bringt. Nämlich die von Ihnen genannten Nationalsprachen. Und zwar handelt es sich bei LUXEMBURGISCH, DEUTSCH und FRANZOESICH nicht um Nationalsprachen, sondern um AMTSSPRACHEN. Die NATIONALSPRACHE der einheimischen Bevölkerung ist und bleibt LUXEMBURGISCH! Ich gehe nun netterweise davon aus, dass Sie diesen Unterschied sehr wohl kennen, und ganz einfach kurzzeitig nicht alle Ihre Sinne beisammen hatten.
Ich verbleibe mit Respekt und freundlichen Grüssen.
Daubenfeld Vera
Liebe Vera, vieles was Sie schreiben ist Richtig.
Ich weiss nicht inwiefern Sie von den Diskussionen zwichen Maxime und Leuten deren Namen ich jetzt mal unerwähnt lasse bescheid wissen. Aufjedenfall gehe ich davon aus dass wenn man dieses Vorwissen hat man anders an diesen Beitrag rangeht, so war es bei mir zumindest. Deshalb wollte ich nur kurz erwähnen dass man dies warscheinlich noch nachlesen kann, wenn Sie Zeit und Lust haben können Sie das ja mal machen, ein kurzer Blick lohnt sich mMn allemal.
Was ich nun eigentlich sagen will ist dass ich persönlich glaube dass Maxime einfach genervt davon war dass soviele Leute sich in letzter Zeit von dieser Banalen, von recht zwielichtigen Leuten geführten Seite zu recht unangebrachten und teilweise übertriebenen Aussagen geleitet wurden und dieser Beitrag dementsprechend gedeutet werden soll.
Ich kann mich natürlich auch irren.
Sou du klengen Wixxer du mengs hai deng Maul grouss opzedoen. 1. Wei sollen mir Letzeboier richteg Letzeboieg kennen schreiwen wann mir daat an der Schoul nie geleiert gin sin well et eben keng richteg Grammatik get. 2. Et ass net well mir d’Flemm hun dass d’Auslänner virgezun gin dass mit automatrsch rassisten sin. Mettlerweil steet an den Aarbeschtsannoncen dass een portugiesech an chinesech an russech an bla bla kennen muss. Eh hallo mir sin sn Letzebuerg oder muss een an Daitschland türkech an polnesch kennen vir do ze schaffen? Ech glewen net. Also haal du mol deng domm Maul an kier virun denger Dier. Weis dech mol an so eis et an d’Gesicht am Platz dech hannert dengem Blog ze verstoppen. Komm op eis Demoen an so deng Meenung.
Et wier mol e gudde Reflex fir https://spellchecker.lu/online-checker/ ze benotzen, well et *gëtt* tatsächlech eng Grammatik, déi och net all ze schwéier ze verstoen ass. Beispill: De “Mett” an dengem “Mettlerweil” liest sech wéi Mettwurscht, wëlls du den “ë” vergiess hues. Schwéier, di Grammatik, nech?
D’Annoncen woren wahrscheinlech op Franséisch geschriwwen, well do hues du mengen ech eppes falsch verstanen. Wann do “la langue x sera considérée comme un atout” steet, dann heescht dat, dass et e Virdeel ass déi Sprooch ze beherrschen, an net dass et eng Pflicht ass.
Du schengs awer och een vun den ganz kriddelechen ze sin. Calmeier dech mol an lies dat hei:
”
Warum, um alle erdenklichen Götter willen, beharrt ihr dermaßen auf der luxemburgischen Sprache und verlangt unerbittlich von Ausländern sie zu erlernen, wenn ihr selbst sie nicht einmal richtig schreiben könnt und anscheinend auch nicht einmal dazu imstande seid, Abendkurse im Luxemburgischen zu besuchen? Wenn euch soviel an eurer heiß geliebten Sprache liegt, dass ihr diese sogar als Vorwand benutzt um euren ekelhaften rassistischen Vorbehalten freien Lauf zu lassen, dann ist es umso unfassbar erbärmlicher dass ihr offenbar doch nicht genügend Zeit besitzt, sie richtig lernen zu wollen. Habt ihr als waschechte Luxemburger etwa das angeborene Recht dazu, auf solche Kurse zu verzichten, während die ausländischen Mitbürger sie sehr wohl besuchen sollen? Wie widersprüchlich ist das?”
Falls de et net gemierkt hues: dat steht an sengem Text.
An zu dengem Argument dass ‘Auslänner virgezun gin’: vu que dass mir keen Portugiesech an der Schoul leieren as et schon zimmlech onfair vun engem Employeur wann en fuerdert dass een dei Sprooch muss kennen fir iwerhaapt eng Chance ze hun. Dat as awer net dem seng Schold deens du hei grad zimlech vernannt hues. Dat as eben an Europa sou dass een iwerall hin kann shaffen goen, mir hun eben ”Pech” dass eist Land sou kleng as an ronderem keen eis Sprooch schwetzt, dofir leieren mir selwer der io souvill.
Awer wanns du mei speit vleicht iergendwou am Ausland schaffs an du en virdeel mat den Sproochen hues wirs de bestemmt och frou. Mee dat as io mol guer net d Thema hei.
An engem aneren interessanten Blog kennt dat wouriwwers du dech hei opreegs mei zur Geltung, leider fannen ech den link grad net rem.
Do geet et awer och drems dass emmer mei Frontalier’en Letzeboiesch leieren asw, wanns de dono sichs fenns de en warscheinlech, en as zimlech interessant an e bessen manner Emotional geschriwen, dovunner gess de och bestemmt net mei domm. (An dat soll keng Beleidegung sin, mee einfach nemmen d’Sprechwuert)
Hallo Maxime,
vorab gestehe ich, dass ich den Text gegen Ende nur grob überflogen habe, aber trotzdem ist mir ein wichtiger Punkt aufgefallen, und zwar, dass du genauso generalisierst wie die, gegen die du antrittst. Zum Einen ist Nation, wenn auch nicht auf eine Definition festgelegt, ein äußerst wichtiger Bestandteil in der Identitätsbildung, die auch nicht einer Definition folgt. Zum Anderen hat gerade Luxemburg überdurchschnittlich hohe Werte in der Umfrage “wie sehr können Sie sich vorstellen Luxemburger UND Europäer zu sein” erzielt (Kaina – Wir in Europa – 2009). Nation ist nach dieser Umfrage in Europa -noch- nicht überholt und ich finde es auch schwierig etwas als überholt zu klassifizieren, von dem wir noch gar nicht wissen, was es eigentlich ist. Europäisches Denken und Nation widersprechen sich nicht unbedingt. So wie Region und Nation sich auch nicht widersprechen. Weiterhin finde ich es bedenklich anderen zu sagen, womit sie sich zu identifizieren haben, wobei ich dir natürlich Recht gebe, dass Nationalität nicht der einzige Bestandteil der Identität sein kann. Im Grunde geht es dir doch darum, die Anfeindungen aus der Welt zu schaffen, und das geht nicht mit noch mehr Anfeindungen. Ich kann dir prophezeien, dass du mit diesem Text die Menschen, die du meinst, nicht erreichen wirst. Mit Leuten, die ihre festgefahrene Meinung haben, kannst du nicht hart argumentieren. Ich will jetzt auch nicht ins Detail gehen, da ich dir in der Grundeinstellung selbstverständlich zustimme, vorausgesetzt ich liege mit der Annahme richtig, dass du dich eigentlich gegen Rechtsextremismus richtest und nicht gegen jegliche Heimatverbundenheit. Ich bin nur eben der Meinung, dass in einem mehrsprachigen Land, wie du selber schon angemerkt hast, auch alle die Mehrsprachigkeit leben sollen, und nicht nur ein Teil der Gesellschaft. Ich finde die Kritik an den Bäcker-Situationen deswegen gerechtfertigt. Nicht zuletzt, da ein Verkaufsgespräch zu einer Alltagssituation gehört und daher nicht unwichtig für die Identitätsbildung ist. Im Übrigen gibt es dieses Problem aber auch im Gesundheitswesen, und um die soziolinguistische Sicht hineinzubringen: Es entstehen durch solche starken Asymmetrien Machtgefälle.
Meine persönliche Vision ist folgende: Ich denke, dass nicht jeder jede Sprache perfekt sprechen muss, denn Produktion fordert weitaus mehr Aufwand als Rezeption. Jedoch sollte jeder rezeptiv alle offiziellen Sprachen verstehen. Dann könnten nämlich die Bäckersituationen so aussehen, dass der Kunde in seiner Sprache bestellt und der Verkäufer in seiner Sprache antwortet und es für niemanden einen hohen kognitiven Aufwand ist und niemand sich in der dominierten Position wiederfindet.
Lieber Maxime,
ich würde mich selbst nicht unbedingt als luxemburgischen Patrioten bezeichnen, aber dennoch sehe ich mich gezwungen, hier einige Sachen richtig zu stellen. Ich werde mir Mühe geben, so sachlich wie möglich zu bleiben.
Wie ich sehe, bis du der deutschen Sprache mächtig. Um aber eine ernsthafte Dikussion zu führen, sehe ich absolute Notwendigkeit darin, solch übertieben ausschweifende Begriffe zu verwenden.
Erst mal, warum beharrst du darauf, dass deine “Drohbriefe” mit Namen (und am besten mit Adresse) versehen sind? “Namen sind Schall und Rauch”, dass wissen wir spätestens seit Goethes Faust. Die Namen sind für die Sachlichkeit dieser Diskussion vollkommen belanglos, schließlich möchtest du ja nicht den einzelnen an den Pranger stellen, sondern lediglich deine Auffassung vor einer großen Menschenmenge verteidigen. Dass du in deiner Postion “angreifbar” bist, dessen warst du dir ja wohl vor der Veröffentlichung dieses Artikels bewusst.
Im Folgenden werde ich jetzt mal auf deine “argumentativen Meisterleistungen” eingehen. Du scheinst wohl sehr von deiner eigenen Person überzeugt zu sein, ansonsten hättest du dich nicht zu einer derart fast schon eingebildeten Aussage hinreißen lassen. Die ersten paar Abschnitte können wir ja mal getrost beiseite lassen, weil viel mehr als eine gezielte Provokation und Wehklagen deinerseits bzgl. der aktuellen Situation findet sich da nicht wieder.
Fangen wir also mit dem Argument Sprachkurs an. Deutsche Kinder lernen in ihrem Land deutsch in der Schule, genauso wie belgische und französische Kinder französisch in ihrem Land in der Schule lernen. Also ist es nur logisch, dass die Kinder in Luxemburg die – und zwar die einzige – Nationalsprache ebenfalls in der Schule erlernen. Es liegt also im Ermessen der Politiker, dieses Problem in Angriff zu nehmen und mehr Luxemburgischunterricht in den Stundenplan einzufügen. Und genau da dreht sich der Spieß um. Würden die Politiker tatsächlich einen derartigen Versuch starten, dann wären auf einem mal ganz laute Aufschreie deinerseits zu vermelden und ihr würdet behaupten, dass dies eine rein rassistische Maßnahme wäre. Nein, es wäre bestenfalls eine Erhaltungsmaßnahme, da du ja sagst, dass es durchaus an Luxemburgischkursen fehlt. Um noch kurz auf das Thema Nationalsprache zurück zu kommen, da ist luxemburgisch die Einzige. Deutsch und Französisch sind lediglich Regierungssprachen und solange es zwischen denen beiden Kategorien einen juristischen Unterschied gibt, werde ich auch darauf beharren.
Ich sehe, du berufst dich auf Statistiken, also sehe ich mich gezwungen gleiches zu tun. Du behauptest 73% unserer Bevölkerung beherrschen die luxemburgische Sprache? Nun denn, was bezeichnest du denn als “beherrschen”? Laut Gesetz reicht ja bereits die Einstufung A2, um den Sprachtest zu bestehen. Das heißt, sie sind zu folgendem Imstande:
“Teilnehmer, die den “Luxemburgisch-Test für Zuwanderer” mit dem Gesamtergebnis A2 bestehen, weisen damit nach, dass sie auf der oberen Stufe des Bereichs “Elementare Sprachverwendung” Sätze und häufig gebrauchte Ausdrücke verstehen können, die mit Bereichen von ganz unmittelbarer Bedeutung zusammenhängen (zum Beispiel Informationen zur Person und zur Familie, Einkaufen, Arbeit, nähere Umgebung). Außerdem können sie sich in einfachen, routinemäßigen Situationen verständigen, in denen es um einen einfachen und direkten Austausch von Informationen über vertraute und geläufige Dinge geht, d.h. sie können mit einfachen Mitteln beispielsweise die eigene Herkunft und Ausbildung, die direkte Umgebung und Dinge im Zusammenhang mit unmittelbaren Bedürfnissen beschreiben.”
Das heißt für mich aber keineswegs, dass sie die Sprache beherrschen. Bei einem derartigen Gespräch würde man sich als fremdsprachengeprägter Luxemburger ohnehin derart unwohl fühlen, dass man der Freundlichkeit halber in einer dem Gegenüber passenderen Sprache kommunizieren würde. Und wie sagte schon Prince Charles vor einiger Zeit: “World language is not english, but bad english”. Da ist es mit dem Luxemburgischen nicht anders. Um jetzt aber die Statistik noch ein wenig aufzugreifen: um die 43% unserer Bevölkerung sind Ausländer. Und dieser Prozentsatz ist in den letzten Jahren auch mehr oder weniger konstant geworden. Diese hängt aber nicht damit zusammen, dass die Einwandererquote in den letzten Jahren gesunken sei, sondern damit, dass viele Ausländer diesen läppischen Sprachtest bestanden haben und somit die luxemburgische Nationalität erwerben konnten. Eine ander Quote steigt demnach weiter an, nämlich jene, der Bürger mit Migrationshintergrund. Diese hat schon die 60%-Grenze überschritten und damit kommen wir dem tatsächlichen “Problem” schon etwas näher.
Hast schon mal versucht einen freundlichen Hund zu bedrängen? Nein? Dann werde ich dir sagen, was der Hund machen wird. Erst mal wird er anfangen zu knurren, um dich zu warnen, dass er sich von dir bedroht fühlt. Wenn du ihn aber dennoch weiter bedrängst wird er dich früher oder später beißen. Und genau da liegt das Problem: viele Luxemburger fühlen sich einfach in die Ecke gedrängt. Ich persönlich habe kein Problem damit, Fremdsprachen sprechen zu müssen, ich bin es ja gewohnt. Allerdings geht das vielen weniger gebildeten Luxemburgern gar nicht so. Ihre Fremdsprachenkenntnisse sind oftmals nicht ausreichend, um verhandlungssichere Gespräche führen zu können. Und somit fühlen diese Leute sich benachteiligt, im eigenen Lande ausgegrenzt. Es ist also nicht wunderlich, dass jene Leute, bei denen der Groll tief sitzt, mit geringfügigen Argumenten zu Rassismus verleitet werden können. Allerdings gibt es diese Sparte auch wiederum bei den Ausländern. Das ist dann jene Gruppe, die unser Land in allem schlecht machen und sich somit den Unmut der Luxemburger sichert.
In einem Punkt gebe ich dir sogar recht, der Großteil der lieben Ausländer kommt nicht nach Luxemburg, weil er uns ausrotten will, sondern einzig und allein aus dem Grund, weil er hier ein besseres Leben führen kann. Ganz ehrlich, unsere Traditionen und unsere Kultur interessiert die doch nicht die Bohne, es geht einzig und allein um das eigene Wohl. Klar, Außnahmen bestätigen die Regel, aber generell ist diese Ignoranz Mitschuld am Groll der Luxemburger. Das vermittelt vielen Luxemburgern das Gefühl, die Ausländer wollten schlichtweg nur von unserer günstigen Wirtschaftslage profitieren.
Und nun zu deinem “Lieblingphilosophen”. Als angehender Maschinenbauingenieur habe ich bisher eine Sache definitiv gelernt: um einen zuverlässigen Schluss ziehen zu können, benötigt es Fakten. Alleine die Tatsache, dass jemand in einer Argumentation – der Darlegung der Fakten – mit einem Philosophen aufkreuzt, lässt mich an dessen Seriösität zweifeln. Worauf beruht die Philosophie? Auf der Ansicht der einzelnen Philosophen, wovon nicht 2 indentisch sind. Die Naturwissenschaften hingegen sind mit Fakten belegt, und deshalb kann jeder Naturwissenschaftler auf das Fachwissen seiner Vorgänger zurückgreifen und weiter darauf aufbauen. Das heißt im Umkehrschluss nichts weiter, als du dir genau die Formulierung von Identität unter vermutlich 100ten von Philosophen herausgesucht hast, die deiner Ansicht, aber keineswegs den Fakten, entspricht.
Mit freundlichen Grüßen,
ein Unbekannter, dessen Name der Sache nicht kund tut.
Guter Kommentar, der den Beitrag durch die entgegengesetzte Meining gut ergänzt mMn., und Ich finde dass vieles was Sie sagen auch richtig ist.
Jedoch , und Ich hoffe dass Ich mich hier nicht zu weit aus dem Fenster lehne, glaube ich dass zu viele Leute sich hier persönlich angegriffen fühlen, was verständlich ist, doch es ist möglich dass der Autor sich ein bisschen in Rage geschrieben hat und seine Argumente/Aussagen deshalb vielleicht etwas anders rüber kommen als gewollt. Wie gesagt will ich keine zu gewagt Aussage hier machen doch in Anbetracht der ”Vorgeschichte” die zwischen M.Weber und den tatsächlich gemeinten besteht sind ihm beim schreiben wohl hauptsächlich nur ein paar besondere Menschen vorgeschwebt, und da nun unten erwähnt wurde dass schon eine Anklage vorliegt ist es sehrwohl richtig zu erwähnen dass Mordrohungen (Hallo, wo sind wir denn hier??) Anonym verschickt wurden und jetzt warscheinlich ebenjene Menschen gerichtlich vorgehen wollen weil er seine (wenn auch vielleicht etwas zu steng ausgedrückte ) Meining hier preisgibt.
An alle anderen soll es wohl eher ein (wenn auch provokante) Aufforderung sein auch anders zu denken.
Moien maxime
Du bass een eierloosen , lutscher deen et mol net vadengt huet kennen ze soen “ech sin letzebuerger “
Merci Ben vir dein kreativen an gescheiten Kommentar.
Gudd Besserung.
Rebonjour ,
als eischt well ech nemmen meng leiwen Matbierger soen daat domm sprech kengem hellefen et muss een bessi sachlech bleiwen an de Leit den Problem beschreiwen , wei nemmen mat beleidegungen ronderem ze scheissen ! All Mensch huet een Recht op seg Menung och wann se Quatsch ass !^^
Und jetzt mal zu ihnen ,
finde es schon befreihend zu sehen dass ich nicht alleine in diesem Land ein Gehirn habe ^^ (Witz oder eben net)
Es sind ein paar Beiträge darunter die eine Antwort oder Stellungnahme verdient haben !
Und an danke an unsere deutschen Nachbarn die dieses Thema nicht nur Einsichtig betrachtet haben ^^
Daumen Hoch
Aberwitzige Vorstellung man könne nur mit einem breitgefächerten Wortschatz und überlegten Wortwahl, jedoch simplen aber gutverpackten Argumenten überzeugen.
Im gegensatz zu den Leuten die in diesem Beitrag tatsächlich gemeint sind hat er aber wenigstens Argumente. Lesen Sie ruhig ältere Beiträge und die Kommentare dazu dann wissen Sie bescheid.
Ech well hei bescheet soen dass eng plaint gemaat gouf geint den Maxime weber an sein beitrach, well heen mecht hei rufmord an hetz geint eng persoun!
Et ass net alaabt fb posten mat numm an foto ouni alaabniss ze vaöfentlechen!
Du hues Recht, dat därf een net maachen.
Souweit ech gesin hun gett am Artikel awer nemmen vun enger Persoun konkret geschwat, dofir gin ech lo mol dovun aus dass besooten Persoun och d PlaintE gemach huet, ausserdem denken ech dann och dass du deen kenns oder et selwer bas. Egal wei, an dem senger Platz geif ech mer dat mat der Plainte iwerleen, well och wann se berechtegt as keint et mol virkommen dass een duerch sou Aussoen wei se do stin selwer Problemer keint kreien. Do steht nämlech net vill Gescheites.
Probeier och demnächst w.e.g. Wierder wei ‘veröffentlechen’ weinstens ebessen richtech ze schreiwen. Dat do geseit nämlech domm aus.
Den Nico Graf war jo och wéinst Rufmord ugeklot. Um Enn huet deen Här, deen d’Plainte gemaach hat, vum Geriicht Rassismus a Xenophobie attestéiert kritt.
An zousätzlech huet deen dem Nico Graf nach 750 Euro musse bezuelen. Ech géing mol fir d’éischt d’Geriichtsuerteel op RTL.lu liese àert ech eng Plainte géint de Maxime Weber géing maachen.
Love it! =)
Intressante Wortschatz hues de do, daat muss ech dir loossen, daat eenzegt waat ett do um formellen ze bemängele gëtt, ass dass deng geschwollen Art a Weis ze schreiwen zwar an der Lyrik gutt géif eriwer kommen, hei awer éischter iwwerhieflech wierkt, an unhuele léisst, dass de eng gewëssen Iwwerléenheet vis-à-vis vun den “Patrioten” déis de hei kritiséiers wells ausdrécken. Soit.
Lo zum Inhalt:
Du verwiessels Rassismus mat Frustratioun. Ech selwer hun Tonnen auslännesch Kollegen an beherrschen all eis national geléiert Sproochen ganz gutt, mee och ech sinn extrem genervt, wann ech emol net gemittlech kann duerch d’Uelzechtstrooss trëppelen an ë bessen shoppen, ouni mussen main franséiche Vokabular auszepaken.
E puer konkret Argumenter:
– fir d’alleréischt ass ett einfach emol eng Form vu Respekt wann een an engem Land opgeholl gëtt an do seng Suen verdéngt (an zwar méi wéi am nämlechte Beruff am eegene Land), dass een op mannst déi drai Begrëffer léiert, déi een am Alldaag mat senger Clients braauch. Wéi gesoot léiert och keen Chines Lëtzebuergesch a China wanns du dohi kenns an e Saack Rais kafe wells, do muss de dech schéin selwer als Auslänner ustrengen
-a verschiddene Beruffer am soziale/medizinesche Beraich trëfft een all Daag op al oder jonk Patienten/Clients déi duerch hiren Alter bedéngt net mei sou op Zack sinn wann ett em d’franséich Sprooch geet. Ech selwer hunn eng Kéier missen mat enger Ambulanz ofgeholl ginn, an an deem Moment wann ett engem richteg schlecht geet huet een aner Suergen wéi a sengem Kapp no Fachbegrëffer an enger “friemer” Sprooch ze kramen
-dain Argument dass d’Lëtzebuerger selwer hir Sprooch net kennen schreiwen ass Kabes. Daat hu mir eisem Schoulsystem ze verdanken deen ett anscheinend net fir néideg hällt anstänneg Letzebuergesch-Stonnen op de Programm ze schreiwen, well jo, mir hun eng Grammmatik, an d’Regelen sinn emol net esou schwéier. An als kleng Bemierkung am Rande: géi eng Kéier a Frankraich an eng Schoul liesen wéi sie hir Sprooch schreiwen, méi brauch ech io lo net ze soen
Voila, menger Meenung no gess du an dengem Post rassistesch Aussoen géigeniwer denger eegener Natioun of, waat dech amfong net vill besser mescht wéi déi Leit déis de kritiséiers.
Ech sin d’elodie daat ass meng Identiteit, an meng Identiteit henkt net vun menger Natioun oof:)
Scheeein geschriwen!
We’i oft muss een hinnen et nach soen…… et geheèiert en TRéMA op den éischten E……….
Wéi ass et am Kanada?
Hallo,
Der Artikel ist meiner Meinung nach zu einseitig. Man müsste das ganze objektiver betrachten und argumentieren. Klar können viele der jungen Luxemburgern nicht gut luxemburgisch (zB: ej, etc…), aber ist die Sprachsituation in anderen Ländern denn anders? Wenn ich Beiträge zur Sprache der jungen Deutsche und Franzosen sehe sträuben sich mir die Haare.
Klar können 73% der Bevölkerung Luxemburgisch sprechen, die Zahl ist ja enorm. Aber wieviele reden sie? Ist es vielleicht ein Gefühl der Scham nicht verstanden zu werden?
Naja ich könnte weiter und weiter schreiben, belasse es jetzt dabei und wer weiss vielleicht widme ich mich dem Thema mal genauer.
MfG Jay
Nur mal um klar zu stellen, hauptsächlich gegenüber deinen Abschitt, dass Luxemburger Ihre Sprache nicht beherrschen!!!
WIR haben sehrwohl vom 2 Lebensschuhljahr an (d.h) mit 8 Jahren luxemburgische, deutsche und französische Kurse. Und außerdem gibt es mehr Luxemburger die richtig luxemburgisch schreiben können als du glaubst, zudem will ich nur mal erwähnen, dass es genau sowiele Deutsche und Franzosen usw… gibt die Ihre eigene Sprache nicht richtig schreiben können ansonsten würdet Ihr ja wohl alle die Note “sehr gut” in der Schule bekommen ist aber nicht der Fall!!
Und nur 1 europäisches Land spricht lernt und schreibt all seine Nachbarssprachen, wer das wohl sein wird?? Genau Luxemburg
Ich bin selbst halbe Italiennerin und verteidige meine beiden Länder, doch mann kann alles übertreiben!!
Luxemburg ist doch bekannt für unserer Banken und als schönes Schlarafenland!! überall finanzielle Unterstützung wohin das Auge reicht und wir müssen mittlerweile einstecken!! Doch diese Unterstütung wird nur mit Füßen getreten!!
Vielen Fallen auf, jeden Tag steht etwas in der Zeitung, viele stecken im Gefängnis. Wollen wir mal die Ergebnisse der Auffallenden und Insassen in Luxemburger zählen. Wer wohl da die Mehrheit erreichen würde??! Frage ich mich
Ich habe beim Ministerium der Immigratioun gearbeitet und was da alles in unser Land kommt und zugelassen wird habe ich mich erschrocken doch nicht das bereitet mir sorgen sondern weswegen alle nach Luxemburg kommen und wie die sich dann noch aufführen!! das ist nicht mehr normal wenn die Polizei aus Angst da rufen werden muss!!!
Jedes Land hat seine Ausländer und es wird in jedem Land genug geschimpft “raus mir den Ausländer” sowol in Deutschland, Frankreich, Italien usw…
Jetzt überleg mal sebst nach… nur für eine Sekunde … “Würdest du dir von ein Ausländer sagen lassen, dass du nicht Deutsch/Fanzösich/ Italiensch usw… (gilt für jede Nation) in deinem eigenen Heimatland sprechen darfst, sondern Türkisch oder portuguisisch oder oder oder” ???
Nee du würdest deine Landessprache auch verteidigen.
Zudem kommt hinzu gibt es in Europa finanzielle Pobleme stehen wir zur Beihilfe immer mit auf der Liste drauf!
Aber hier noch großartig rum häulen!! Kotzt mich an.
Ich bin der Meinung, dass egal in welches Land man sich integriert/ integrieren will auch Fügen und anpassen sollte d.h. Der Ausländer in das eingewanderte Land und nicht die Einheimischen an die Einwanderer!!!
Somit soll man die Sprach und Kultur des Landes lernen!!
Jedes Land und seine Einwohner haben das Recht es zu verteidigen!
Meine Muttersprache ist italienisch und luxemburgisch und Lese Spreche un Sschreibe beides = darauf bin ich stolz!!
Ich bin eine unbedeutende Person in meinem Land doch Angst habe ich noch lange keine !!!
Ich sage: “jedes Land und Einwohner hat das Recht darauf sein Land/Sprache zu verteigigen und auf die Sitten, Gebräuche, Kultur und Sprache zu bestehen”
(Ein klarer Menschenverstand müsste einem auch sagen, dass es angebracht ist um sich in einem fremden Land zu integrieren)
Ich äußere mich nur teils zu deinem Text weil mir dein Roman auf den Sack geht denn jedes Land hat seine eigene Probleme sowohl mit Einheimischen als auch mit Ausländern.
Ich wünsche dir viel Spaß beim Lesen und einen schönen Tag.
Vanessa Francogli
@ Ricco Gonzalo
Danke für deine Antwort obwohl ich eine vom Autor erwartet hätte ! Du sagst sehr interessante sachen aber ein Punkt muss ich eher korrigieren ! Ich glaube nicht dass alle die Leute diese FB-Seite geliked haben sich dem Autor verschrieben sondern eher der Idee ! Ich glaube kaum dass jeder den Autor kennt und von seiner Vergangheit , die übrigends sein Privateigentum ist ! Es ist nämlich nicht der Autor der dem Kraft verleiht sondern die Menschen die dahinter stehen !
Und jetzt zu euch Kritiker ihr habt alle einen an der Waffel , mal ganz ehrlich diese kleine FB-Seite da so zu verhöhnen dass ich heute im Radio höre dass es Ausländerfeindliche bemerkungen im internet kursieren nur weil ihr anderer Meinung seid ?!
Und das jetzt Kampagnen gestartet werden sollen um die Leute aufzuklären ?!! Ich weiss nicht was das soll aber der schuss kann vielleicht nach hinten losgehen !!!
Hier geht es um Respekt und nicht um irgendwelche Rassistischen Organisationen die einen Putsch starten !^^
Münzen haben 2 Seiten und die nicht ohne Grund ! Wenn man Stabilität will muss nicht nur eine Seite nachgeben , sondern 2 gleichvill tun !
Mal sehen wie Lustig und Lächerlich das Ganze noch wird !
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Sou eppes wei dech brauche mer hei och nach ganz dringend. Haal deem ganze Kretz och nach gudd Partie da komme mer hei wait. Du Null
„Roude Léiw huel se” Maxime Weber Du Sauhond !!!!!!
Verstoppt séch hannert engem Fake Nick, mais hues och besser 😉 Sau Do !
1.All Biérger sin verpflicht eis lëtzebuergesch Sprooch ze kennen. 2. Fw get eis Mammensprooch an der Primärschoul einfach faalen geloos ? 3.Wou sin Milliounen hin, déi an den Vietnam geflunn sin 4.Fw mussen Politiker kéng Steieren nach sos ëppes eran bezuelen ? An Däitschland get däitsch geschwat ohne WENN UND ABER, an England ënglesch, an Frankréich franséich….. Du hues dach kéng Ahnung ! Lëtzebuerger diskriminéiren, an dem ze behaapten se kéinten keen lëtzebuergesch schreiwen. AN SELBST WANN ! ALL LAND HUET SÉNG SPROOCH !!!!! Mir als Lëtzebuerger hun RECHT op éis Sprooch, an mir hun et saat, vun der Politik verarscht an belun ze gin !! WEL MIR GIN VERARSCHT !!!!! Ech haasen politësch Unhänger an hun gesin, du bas fier ADR 🙂 Also haal léiwer dein Baak, an hun vill Auslänner gesin, déi keen lëtzebuergesch konnten. Déng Zuelen sin bestemmt vun der Lsap oder Csv geklaut !
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Liebe luxemburgische Patrioten, … | Maxime Weber
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I’ll gear this review to 2 types of people: current Zune owners who are considering an upgrade, and people trying to decide between a Zune and an iPod. (There are other players worth considering out there, like the Sony Walkman X, but I hope this gives you enough info to make an informed decision of the Zune vs players other than the iPod line as well.)
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Hands down, Apple’s app store wins by a mile. It’s a huge selection of all sorts of apps vs a rather sad selection of a handful for Zune. Microsoft has plans, especially in the realm of games, but I’m not sure I’d want to bet on the future if this aspect is important to you. The iPod is a much better choice in that case.
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